Should students respond to feedback?

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The opposite of talking isn’t listening. The opposite of talking is waiting.

Fran Lebowitz

One of the criticisms of my post about book monitoring is that I have omitted checks to see whether students have responded to feedback. This omission is entirely deliberate. Does this mean I don’t care whether students respond to feedback? You might think this is a bit of a silly question – of course they should. After all, what’s the point in giving feedback which will be ignored?

Dylan Wiliam makes the following comment in my book:

Sometimes the support we give to students may be emotional rather than technical—getting them to believe they can do something they themselves don’t believe they can. That’s why I don’t think that feedback should be descriptive. I think it should be productive—the only interesting thing that feedback does is what it does to the learner, and specifically whether it prompts them to do what we want them to do (raise aspiration, or increase effort, according to the situation), which is why I suggest that feedback should, in general, be more work for the recipient than the donor. …There are much more effective ways of structuring feedback interventions than just marking students’ work. (p 267) [my italics]

I’m sure everyone would be willing to allow that feedback is only worthwhile if it is acted upon. The challenge then becomes to determine what effect our feedback has produced. This resulted in the vogue for dialogic feedback in which teacher and student write out a conversation in the student’s exercise book. The literal-minded and the lazy have interpreted this as checking to see whether students have written a response to their teachers’ written feedback. This is the nonsensical logic of ‘triple marking‘: 1) the teacher gives feedback on student’s work, 2) the student writes a response to teacher’s feedback, and 3) teacher gives feedback on student’s response (and so on ad infinitum.)

In the worst cases, we can find evidence of students responding to teachers’ feedback which display absolutely no positive impact at all. In this example, the student’s response is meaningless:

Screen Shot 2015-11-30 at 08.57.36

Of course, anyone can pick out poor examples to ridicule a practice, but my contention is that even when we get good examples there is still no evidence of learning or progress. Here’s an example from Scott Williams who has very kindly allowed me to critique one of his colleague’s books:

Screen Shot 2015-11-30 at 12.29.49

Here we see a combination of teacher marking (in blue) and peer critique (on the PostIt) and student response (in green).

This was the teacher’s feedback: “Link some of your ideas to different groups in society (rich, poor, businesses, children).”

And he is the student’s response: “Businesses are impacting on global warming because they use a vast amount of energy and they release fuel polluting the earth.”

Clearly, the student has done (some) of what the teacher wanted. We might look at this and conclude that learning has occurred and that progress has been made. But has it?

My definition of learning is the retention and transfer of skills and knowledge. If we accept that in order for learning to meet this definition it must be durable (it should last) and flexible (it should be applicable in new and different contexts) then we should also accept that it cannot be observed in the here and now. The only way to see if something has been retained over time and transferred to a new context is to look at what students can do at another time and in another place. Just because the student has improved their work here and now does not mean they will still be able to do this elsewhere and later.

One of the most useful and important pieces of information for teachers is the distinction between learning and performance. Performance is what students can do. It is all that we can ever observe. Learning takes place inside a student’s mind and as such cannot be observed directly.

We can make inferences about learning based on the performances we see, but, performances at the point of instruction are a very poor predictor of learning. What students can do in a lesson – or in response to feedback – tells us very little about what they might be able to do elsewhere and later. Teachers provide cues and prompts increase students’ performance in lessons and students are skilled at mimicking what they think teachers want to see and hear. This mimicry might result in learning but often doesn’t.

If my feedback to a student prompts them to rewrite a passage varying sentence structure or to include a more detailed analysis of a quotation, what does it tell me if the student then varies sentence structure or provides a more detailed analysis? Even the most charitable interpretation only reveal that the student was able to follow my instructions.

Maybe instead I could provide feedback in the form of a question? Questions demand a response and the best questions provoke thought, so this is sure to demonstrate the advancement of students’ learning, isn’t it? Well, no not really. I can ask very general questions like, “What have you done wrong?” or “How could you improve this work?” which are only useful if students already know what to do and just couldn’t be bothered to do it in the first place, or I could ask more precise questions like “What would be a better word to use instead of ‘nice’?” or “Which stage of the formation of oxbow lakes have you missed out?” These kinds of questions are so loaded that they artificially inflate students’ performance and contain such strong clues as to the expected improvement as to result in mimicry.

Checking to see whether students have responded to written feedback is short-term managerialism which privileges performance over learning. This might not be so bad but for the fact that there’s compelling evidence to suggest that reducing performance at the point of acquisition can actually increase future learning. If students struggle to perform well during instruction, or at the point of feedback, this can make their memories more flexible and durable.

The best kind of feedback might just be more teaching and lots of practice.Just as the opposite of talking isn’t listening but waiting, the opposite of checking for students’ responses to feedback is to allow them to make progress over time. The best way to check that students are making progress is to wait. Waiting is hard to do because it requires patience (a virtue I should add to this list.) The best idea might be to benchmark students’ performance in an assessment here and now, and then use comparative judgment to see whether performances have improved elsewhere and later.

When monitoring students’ work we should seek to avoid being blinded by the easy distractions of teacher feedback and student response. All that ever matters is the quality of the work.

2015-11-30T12:46:27+00:00November 30th, 2015|assessment, leadership|

14 Comments

  1. Gareth Lewis November 30, 2015 at 9:59 am - Reply

    A very interesting article. I agree with your points as I feel that much of the responding to comments by a learner will not necessarily improve their learning.

    I wonder about your point in the last paragraph about ‘more teaching and lots of practice’ and ‘make progress over time’. Again I agree with your points. It could be seen as looking through a learner book and seeing that some formative comments have been given which have been responded to by the learner in other pieces of work. But this is a very narrow example.
    If I can add my own piece thought to the argument. I think that showing progress is about students developing the mastery of learning over at least 3 stages to develop the skills. I discuss it in this blog…

    https://thiseducationblog.wordpress.com/2015/08/25/mastery-of-learning/

    …where I say that a learner completes a piece of work and then challenge is brought in to switch the learning but using the same developing skills. Feedback would be provided at each stage, which the learner could use and show progress over time (hopefully!).

    That is how I would see feedback really working and as a little addition to your thought provoking blog.

    Thanks, Gareth. 🙂

  2. Shaun Ellerton November 30, 2015 at 11:25 am - Reply

    Great blog post and certainly a topic of worthy discussion for any one involved in the education of others. I agree that ‘more teaching and lots of practise’ can lead to learners who ‘make progress over time’ as we can establish progressions through your mentioned assessments. I also agree that if feedback does not instil corrective applications and learning behaviours, then what would it’s use really be? However, as learners travel through the education system there is a transformation from directed learning to self-study and reflection (key stages, FE through HE). I have found teaching within HE that many students have not developed the self-study and reflection techniques and when approached on the topic, many students refer to either ‘lack of feedback at vital stages’, or ‘not truly understanding feedback given’ as a direction to understanding one’s self learning mechanism. I feel even at HE level, structured feedback at all stages helps develop the learner and aspire them to achieve their best as it is normally at HE they have a much clearer concept of where their future might be heading. Asking questions and gaining responses to your feedback I have to say is a great way to try understand application and knowledge, plus a willingness to learn and develop, but I agree that feedback is not the ‘be all and end all’ of student development. Sometimes, subject specific, task orientated, or context related requires the student to step in and self assess with followed up specific application.

    • David Didau November 30, 2015 at 12:19 pm - Reply

      Hi Shaun – I take your point about students not being able to study independently at HE. This is a function, at least in part, of what I call SatNav feedback. As to the statement that “structured feedback at all stages helps develop the learner and aspire them to achieve their best”, I’m not at all sure that’s true. I’ve written here about how feedback goes wrong & how to get it right: https://www.learningspy.co.uk/featured/getting-feedback-right/

  3. Shaun Ellerton November 30, 2015 at 3:32 pm - Reply

    Hi David. Thanks for pointing that out. It was supposed to finish with ‘at certain times’ but I unfortunately missed that out. I did mention that feedback is not the ‘be all and end all’ and I agree that not all feedback is good feedback. However, giving students the possibility to attain feedback whether they read it, apply it or not really depends on the student, and the tutors perceptions of that student to ascertain which types of feedback work best. There are a number of studies that have looked at the type of feedback in certain contexts, subjects involving, audio (MP3), video (MPEG, personal including name), written, in person, or a combination of these. What I gather from the research is it would appear feedback is valuable dependent on the delivery method, students’ willingness to apply, and motivational levels! However, from my experience of HE, without that feedback, many students would be lost in terms of self-study and personal reflection. The transition from FE to HE (data provided vs research) can either break or make the learner. It can simply boil down to not understanding how to apply that feedback, ascertain self-reflection, and apply those principles on their next scheduled task (teaching and lots of practice).

    • David Didau November 30, 2015 at 6:20 pm - Reply

      Hi Shaun – any studies you can send me on written feedback would be gratefully received – I haven’t any other than the exceedingly anecdotal beyond the grade vs comment stuff.

      • Shaun Ellerton February 18, 2016 at 4:03 pm - Reply

        Hi David. Sorry I never got back to you. Trying to keep up with all the blogs and comments can sometimes be hard work. I have written an article which looks at feedback within an educational environment although based on Mathematics. You can check it out here and see what you think:

        http://change4thefuture.co.uk/2016/02/18/feedback-educational-environment/

        Here is a snippet:

        Fyfe (2012) stated the primary function of feedback is to promote the continual application of correct methods while identifying and eradicating errors. However, Davis & McGowen (2007) highlights that although teachers are able to analyse results to establish strengths and improvements of a learner, teachers don’t always incorporate their findings to promote curricula changes, therefore not catering for both the individual and multiple needs of their current and future cohorts.

  4. mrbenney November 30, 2015 at 8:15 pm - Reply

    Just to clarify, are you saying students should respond to feedback but it shouldn’t (necessarily) be checked or students shouldn’t respond to feedback because it will be a meaningless, performance focused event?
    Damian

    • David Didau November 30, 2015 at 8:17 pm - Reply

      I’m definitely saying there’s absolutely no value to checking whether students have responded to feedback. When we check we force students into mimicry and that is, I think, best avoided. But obviously it’s cool for students to respond if they want to.

      • mrbenney November 30, 2015 at 8:30 pm - Reply

        I think it’s a big leap to say that by checking we force students into mimicry. In my view, checking or not is not the important bit, it’s giving feedback that makes the student think or puts right a misconception.

        • David Didau November 30, 2015 at 8:38 pm - Reply

          It’s view I understand if disagree with. Think it all the way through…

  5. […] The opposite of talking isn’t listening. The opposite of talking is waiting. Fran Lebowitz One of the criticisms of my post about book monitoring is that I have omitted checks to see whether students have responded to feedback. This omission is entirely deliberate. Does this mean I don’t care whether students respond to feedback? You  […]

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  7. […] but a thing doesn’t become true just because lots of people believe it. I’ve argued here that requiring students to respond to feedback could well be counter-productive and is at best a […]

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